>I wouldn’t say I’m heavily invested in these issues though. Maybe you shouldn’t be either.
Great line. I strongly believe that you can only really reach the truth with a deeply dispassionate analysis of events. It's no coincidence that the most ardent supporters of Israel/Palestine/Russia/Whatever also tend to have the worst epistemology.
I beg to differ. The epistemology on here regarding the Russia/Ukraine war is very lightweight. This war is actually a consequence of George Kennan's 1940's AND long since recanted belief that the Soviet Union should be ringed by a wall of steel. The very fact that the 'buffer state' status of the Ukraine is seen only from the Baltic States viewpoint suggests no deep reading. For it isn't ONLY the Baltic States that see Ukraine as a buffer state. Failing to delve into history more than about 20 years is poor. Ukraine was the buffer territory between Russia and Europe for centuries. EVERY Western invasion of Russia failed because the long haul across the plains of Ukraine, the scorched earth, weakened Napoleon and Hitler and saved Russia or the USSR. Ukraine IN the EU AND NATO is NOT a buffer state for Russia. IT means potential European Invaders start some 1000km closer to Moscow.
The US/EU/NATO has lied none-stop to Russia since the re-unification of Germany. So much as I don't wish to live under Putin's rule, I"d prefer NOT to live under the Ukrainians. So far it is Ukraine's leaders who drag men out of clubs and bars to be forced to fight and die. Russia hasn't yet resorted to that. Which begs the question. Are the Russian people more able to defy their supposedly worse than Ukraine Govt? Also it is NOT Russia who is under Martial Law. thus allowing Zelensky to remain President despite his democratic mandate having expired. The West should accept that IF Ukraine is going to cease being the Buffer State that the US/Russia originally agreed upon AND agreed to protect as such, then better the Soviet Drawn borders are redrawn to end this war, for we are in a Post Soviet World.
Look to the Balkans for another example of redrawing Soviet Borders in a Post Soviet World. The US/NATO was prominent in that too.
One final note, UKraine has historic enemies on its other borders too. Poland for one believes fair chunks of Ukraine are rightfully theirs. History is worth reading to understand the present.
> This war is actually a consequence of George Kennan's 1940's AND long since recanted belief that the Soviet Union should be ringed by a wall of steel.
In retrospect the Reagan doctrine of wining the Cold War, rather than merely containing Communism, turned out to be the correct one.
However that is only a distraction. Ukraine in NATO is NOT a buffer state as the treaties intended when Russia/US became guarantors of its existence.
The Ukraine's borders are Soviet Drawn, you can argue all you like regarding their 'validity' but once the US/NATO redrew the Soviet Borders in the Balkans then there is NO basis for the West arguing Crimea shouldn't be Russian nor the Donbas be Russian as it would be redrawing borders.
Nor has the West/US any moral standing when they promote a coup and overthrown a legitimately elected (though corrupt) Russian leaning President.
Imagine the response in the US had Lavrov turned up at the Capitol rally and encouraged it? Victoria Nuland turned up in Maidan Square!
The war should be stopped now and the borders re-drawn, because IF that doesn't happen, Ukraine is going to cease to exist or NATO has to accept WW3 and put boots on the ground. Or more pertinent, put MORE boots on the ground other than 'advisors' or tech specialists trainers.
The really immoral behaviour of the West is demanding that Ukraine conscript 18-24 year olds in return for weapons. They will die, as young and even middle aged men are dying in the horrific war of attrition in the East.
The demographics for Ukraine's 18-24 year olds are bleak As are most demographics in the West too. This is the generation that will repopulate Ukraine, to squander it on the battlefield to satisfy the West and the Azov Nazi Nationalists is immoral and in my mind despicable.
The West's propaganda is now being exposed for what was. Wishful thinking. Stop the war, negotiate AND IF needs be, tell Ukraine it has to be a buffer state, no NATO membership. Perhaps IF Russia is generous they may allow them into the EU.
I can already imagine the indignation in the minds of many 'Why should Russia have any say!" - Well, ask yourself this. Would the US have let Mexico join the Warsaw Pact?
Meanwhile what appears to a UK citizen as the US equivalent of the UK's Monster Raving Loony Party fancy dress day out in the Capitol treated as an insurrection is risible.
Putin is right in that the West is rotten, at least as far as our ruling elites are concerned, and is going to have a terrific shock when the reality of the new world order appears.
Sooner or later, we are going to have to face Islam in Europe, and ironically the countries best set up to deal with it are all former Warsaw Pact states. Western civilisation was once saved from Ottomans by Hungary, it may need more than Hungary to save Europe from Islam next time. We should have accepted Russia into the European fold where it had been when Napoleon invaded it. Sadly the US would not have that because it would have made Europe a power again and diminished US influence. Russia would I suspect have teamed up with Germany and more than challenged US influence in Europe. Though the Baltic states etc were equally against. They better hope the buffer states to their South East can hold back Islam or they may regret that decision.
Meanwhile, here in the UK I wait with interest to see what fails first. Our new Government, or our power Grid. Though if the latter fails, our new Government will go with it. Net Zero is more dangerous to the UK than Putin or Russia.
All that noise just to apologise for Putin choosing to invade a sovereign European country in an action that's led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of European people.
Yeah, no, rambling about George Kennan isn't going to cut it.
By whom, and when? The Soviets? Russia is currently redrawing the borders because Ukraine, NATO and the US failed to abide by EVERY treaty they have signed with Russia, including those regarding Ukraine.
Ukraine was supposed as I've said before, to be the buffer state NOT just for the Baltic States, BUT for Russia. The West with Azov support, broke the treaty, staged a coup, overthrew a validly elected President who was about to sign a deal with Russia NOT the EU, because Putin offered what the EU could not offer. Unlimited cheap gas.
No matter how much one dislikes Putin and Russia, they stuck with treaties that the US/EU/NATO abandoned repeatedly. Russia is doing what it repeatedly warned the US/NATO it would do IF the US/NATO continued to break treaties and bring NATO to Russia's borders.
Azov, US, NATO were warned AND didn't believe Russia Now the Azov and Ukraine are reaping what they & the US sowed. Not even all Ukrainians want this war. As proven by the press gangs dragging young Ukrainian men from nightclubs, bars and pressing them into service.
The Donbas seceded from the rogue state that the coup produced and was then attacked by Ukraine's Nationalist Army. It is all there in black and white. You may not like it, but the fact is Russia, as it has done before, stepped in to protect ethnic Russians caught on the wrong side of Soviet drawn borders. Ukraine and the West could have negotiated BUT they didn't. Now it is too late to stop Russia redrawing the borders by force as they see fit.
This is the last response I will make ,because ALL the evidence is there for you to look up. The West, US/NATO is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian, something even all Ukrainians aren't prepared to do, but Azov and Zelensky under Martial Law will try and force them OR NATO to fight. It will NOT end well if the west does not stop it, in fact it will end far worse than a negotiated peace. We should have accepted Russia's bid to join NATO when they asked OR we should have scrapped NATO when the Warsaw pact was disbanded.
This is basically yet another First World luxury--to have so much spare time that we *can* afford to involve ourselves emotionally in situations that have very little direct bearing on our own lives.
Does anyone suppose that a farm worker in Sinaloa cares about stuff like this, at all?
The ardent supporters of Israel/Palestine etc. do tend to have bad epistemology.
However, the people who DON'T have any opinions on any political issue tend to know even LESS and have even WORSE opinions.
[See Jason Brennan "Against Democracy" Chapter 2 for details.]
To use Brennan's terminology, partisans for any conflict tend to be "hooligans" (who know some things but in a biased way) while most other people are "hobbits" (who don't know anything and don't care).
FWIW, I, too, share your belief that one must distance one's self when evaluating most situations that are not within the sphere of your close personal circle--in the latter case, shared emotional responses are almost always what binds friendship/kinship groups.
But even further WRT dispassionarte evaluation for topics like Israel/Palestine, Ukraine/Russia, is Emil's early statement, "I wouldn’t say I am particularly invested in this issue.". If, like me--and apparently Emil--yuou have little investment, why bother with an actual commitment? Is it a form of self-definition/public testimony declaring the kind of person you are? That you feel that you're "on the right side"?
And added to all this, you're also right about shaky epistemology--and I'll add here that I've found that those who accept thin proof regularly have lots more problems than simply getting issues like Israel/Palestine "right".
So really, in these situations, my honest question is "why?" Why choose? Why involve yourself any further than in simply gathering the basic facts far enough to see that nope, it bears little to no direct or rationally foreseeable effect on the lives or you or yours?
Basic ethics: after decades of immigration, Jews *did not displace a single Arab community through 1946* while local Arabs bought into European genocidal antisemitism and were guilty of atrocities and ethnic cleansing of several ancient Jewish communities. Arab invasions starting in 1947 produced a war in which many Arabs lost their homes. Jews won a second genocidal attempt against them within three years and now ethically hold the nation of israel.
I see. More Judaic talking points. Husseini having intimate connections with uncle Adolf. Fantastical and creative….and entirely improbable. Also, the “massacres” you referenced were tribal skirmishes and not the ethnic pogroms that Zionists like to conjure up, despite what Wikipedias’ hasbara editors tell you.
Name one. The settlement pattern of Jews in the British Palestinian Colony was almost entirely waste lands -- heavily malarial areas. In fact, The Arab population of the area exploded due to Jewish immigrant impact on economic dynamism. Meanwhile Arabs routinely massacred and ethnically cleansed Jews.
I don’t really know what you mean when you say you aren’t ”invested”.
The Ukraine War is the most important geopolitical event in Europe for a generation. And you don’t actually live that far away from it, or from where it could spread to.
The difference between Israel and the Palestinians, and between the Ukrainians and the Russians, lies in the contrast between those who believe the world is not a zero-sum game, where coexistence is possible, and those who view it as a zero-sum struggle that can only be resolved through violence. The Palestinians refuse to coexist with a Jewish state, and the Russians refuse to coexist with a free Ukraine.
Tamritz, you are a motivated liar. The Palestinians accepted only 22% of their own territory in the form of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. Netanyahu has made clear that under no circumstances would he allow that. You are a malevolent character. Try Jeffrey Sachs, Aaron Maté, Max Blumenthal and many others for more intelligent Jewish takes on this.
The Palestinians have never agreed, and still do not agree, to live alongside a Jewish state. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go to a Palestinian internet forum and ask them if they agree to a solution of a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish state. 90% of the responses will be negative. A solution of compromise is completely contrary to the Muslim mentality.
Ukraine isn't "free", it is an American colony since 2014, Crimea and Donbass are Russian-majority areas and deserve freedom from the Kiev regime that they didn't vote for
Saying the thing that no-one is willing to say out loud: Islam is an extremely violent, incestuous, xenophobic, genocidal, and misogynistic ideology. No one will be safe until it is gone from the face of the earth. Leave aside the Jews. Muslims in Bangladesh and Pakistan are killing and raping Hindus in those countries as you sit there.
I’m American and support Russia in the Russo-Ukrainian War though have no animosity towards Ukrainians and support their independence if that is what they desire. Just not as American vassals or in NATO.
You have no animosity against Ukranians but support Russia in bombing and killing them, and support their independence but also support Russia’s attempt to remove it?
I support the destruction of NATO, The EU, and America First aka an end to empire and neocon imperialist wars. If that makes me ‘Putin’s puppet’ in the eyes of Ukrainiacs, so be it.
Not that the EU isn't a worthless organization, but even all its worthlessness is still infinitely better to Putinist gangsterism, which from day one was based not merely on imperialist wars conducted in the most indiscriminate matter, but on literally murdering hundreds of civilians in fake terrorist attacks for which to blame on Muslims, only to surrender the entire federation to Shariah, so thoroughly that desecrating a Koran anywhere in Russia is now punishable by being rounded up and tortured by Muslim thugs. Not even the most cucked surrenderist in the EU can boast of such debasement.
‘Putin bad man.’ Must nuke Moscow. American imperialism and wars good. Rainbow flags in every hamlet from Taipei to Timbuktu. You people are a broken record. Retards.
Lol most of the Amerimutts who want to fight the "orcs" want it because Putin banned gay parades which is a huge atrocity in the eyes of the western sodomites
Most American ‘dissident rightists’ who support NATO and essentially adopt neocon talking points should go back to conservatism or whatever swamp they climbed out of. They want Americans to die for Israel or the Jewish oligarch run state in Ukraine. Retards like Eugene Nier who probably has never been close to a battlefield in his autistic little life. Fuck all these people. I feel like I need a shower after interacting with these pieces of garbage.
Minding our own business, looking after our own legitimate interests, and protecting our own borders rather fan those of parasitic countries like Israel and Ukraine is always good along with avoiding unnecessary wars not in our interests.
Rubbish little neocon-lite dude as the United States meddles and foments wars constantly the world over. Russia doesn’t have troops and bases in every continent. Guess who does?
All of these armchair dissident rightists have no skin in the game and have never served a day in the military (99% of them) but oh how they want ‘the proles’ to go fight their wars for them.
As opposed to supporting a puppet ‘Ukrainian’ regime with a non-Ukrainian leader and a government imposed by a phony western intelligence funded ‘color revolution.’
You don’t give a shit about them and I don’t think Ukraine is worth one white American life let alone a possible European (or Gods forbid, nuclear) war over a border dispute.
I'm in the 100% pro Israel camp. On Russia vs. Ukraine, I'm slightly in the pro Russia camp.
In the beginning, I was strongly favoring Russia but Putin turned out to be a monkee/retard and Ukrainians defended themselves well. In general, I want the strongest horse to win in order to avoid White people being thrown in a meatgrinder. But I understand that game theoretically, aggressor must be punished to reduce future conflicts. I have Russian, Ukrainian and a bit of Jewish ancestry
Forcing 20 year old White boys to go die for geopolitical reasons is never acceptable, that doesn't mean it would be good for Putin to take over Russia but Zelensky should be removed from power and executed.
There's a difference (or should be) between long and short term perspectives on the basic conflict. In the long run, people may have contrary but supportable views.
In the short term, Israel is unambiguously committing a genocide and war crimes on a massive scale, in a completely one-sided conflict in which it mainly bombs kids, sodomizes prisoners, throws Palestinians off buildings, assassinates relief workers, intentionally creates famine conditions, and commits large-scale terrorism within the borders of other countries. Much of this is on camera for all the world to see.
Unless you understand that the US and Eurozone regularly employ propaganda techniques originally developed as weapons of war on a scale that would make the Soviet's blush, you will understand very little of world events.
The conflict has been astonishingly targeted, especially by the standards of urban warfare against guerrilla terrorists whose only plan of victory is maximizing the civilian casualties of their own side.
The only creation of famine has been by HAMAS, who control all aid distribution, and whose only priority is ensuring its own survival for the sake of continuing their commitment to the IRGC's global jihad. Who also use both child soldiers and extrajudicial execution regregularly, so we will have zero means of figuring out how many Palis died in this war, least of all how many were actually civilians, especially given the Palis long tradition of lying about casualty figures, even when they're not directly warring on Jews, such as when Arafat tried and failed to conquer Jordan in the early '70s.
Good lord, this has to be one of the most frail takes on the Zionist-Palestinian conflict I’ve come across in a while. And it’s coming from the least expected person! I’m honestly flabbergasted that so many are still embracing this self-inflicted ideological submission (“cucking”) to Zionist pay-masters. Truly, it’s a masterclass in cognitive dissonance.
If you expected EK to favor Palestinians (IQ 90) over Ashkenazi Jews (IQ 110), you have not read much of him yet. See his most popular post: crime rates of Palestinian refugees in Denmark! Spoiler: Very high. https://www.emilkirkegaard.com/p/palestinians-in-your-country-what
"Any group whose IQ is below mine are barbarians whose presence is incompatible with civilization, any group whose IQ is above mine are evil conspirators planning to exile us from civilization."
It’s a lot like the white woke mantra that any group that does better than whites (Jews Asians etc) is because of culture and any group that does worse (blacks natives etc) is because of oppression and discrimination.
You missed the subtle point in my comment. Notice how once one abstracts away from the specific groups in question, the first attitude justifies the second.
Where do I start? Israel is less evil? This man claims to be a researcher into IQ and then produces this low-IQ statement. To arrive in a part of the world you have no claim to with the aim of pushing all of the inhabitants out; to embroil all surrounding countries in constant wars; to surround UN refugee camps in Lebanon and send in local militia to massacre refugees; to wage the war of Cast Lead against Gaza including shooting in the ankles peaceful protestors - most of whom now permanently disabled; to have killed around 150,000 Palestinians between 2008 and 2023, before the current conflict; and then to wage the current war, mainly on women and children, including bombing hospitals, churches and schools--and then to say these people aren't evil? This is flabbergasting. I think you need to consider your qualifications for writing on IQ if you're struggling yourself, mate!
Arabs started it < 1946 with their genocidal antisemitism. They had many opportunities to make peace. Jews never displaced any Arab communities before 1947 but Arabs wanted the Jews dead anyway.
That is simply untrue. I suspect you know it to be untrue. Bengurion wrote in his letters of his plans to create an ethnically cleansed Nazareth, and Jabotinsky, the main Zionist ideologue and precursor of Likud, wrote of "transfer", not "ethnic cleansing", but "transfer" of the entire Palestinian nation out of Palestine. In fact the war began in November 1947 - you are wrong - and you are lying when you say the war began in 1946 - read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine on this. No condemnation is too harsh for people like you who inhabit social media and make explicit pro-genocidal propaganda. I do support sharing the land, as people born there have nowhere to go, but that requires negotiations reaching a MUTUALLY SATISFACTORY agreement, and not just violent repression of the Palestinians. As 50% of the population is Arab now, I recommend 50% of the land going to the Palestinians (despite the fact that 100% of it was their land to begin with).
The Palestinians need to accept that they lost and figure it out from there. Continuing to fight and particularly to fight by deliberately targeting soft civilian targets while ignoring the military and government is not a strategy that can ever succeed at anything except convince Israel to actually "kill them all and let god sort them out"
In my opinion Israel has been excessively tolerant and careful in its responses and that is probably a mistake because it convinces Palestinians that Israel is weak. Realistically Israel could kill everyone in Gaza in a week or less and there is nothing that the Gazans can do to stop that and nothing that their allies or putative allies can do either. That's a sign that you have lost and need to sue for terms not continue fighting.
No, they don't have to accept that they lost, as if they should just commit suicide to satisfy you. It is all their territory, including Tel Aviv, but they have stated they will share and divide the territory, but Israel has said they will get nothing at all.
I'm for Russia because Azov supported Nazis, Ukraine is a proxy for NATO who have lied since day 1 to Russia Russia is a slightly less corrupt an Oligarchy than Ukraine. The US uses/used NATO to further its global hegemonic ambitions which include the destruction of Russia as a potential rival superpower. Putin may not be nice, but he was honest, he has warned the US/NATO repeatedly that war was the ultimate outcome IF NATO kept expanding to their borders. The Irony is your 'buffer' state argument re the Baltic States IS the very argument Russia uses for the war. Ukraine is NO buffer IF it becomes a NATO member as far as Russia is concerned.
Ukraine's leaders aren't nice either AND they were killing ethnic Russians in the Donbas for a start following the US supported Coup of 2014.
So it may be IF you know more of the real-politik an opinion may change?
As for Israel, I watched the pogrom of Oct 7, and remember that in the UK it wasn't the Israeli's who bombed young girls in Manchester Arena, or the Underground/London.
Israel is fighting an enemy of Western Civilisation, an enemy who, IF they ever gain Nuclear Weapons, are quite likely to use them because as the Crusaders used to say (though of a Christian God, NOT theirs) 'Deus Vult' - So my support of Israel is because better they fight and win than my children lose or die.
Our leaders in the West are morons. There is NO such thing as Islamaphobia, because a phobia is irrational. Fear of Islam is NOT irrational. What is it with them and young girls? Did you see and hear what they did to them on Oct 7th. I saw a video of them (their own video!) parading a young girl's defiled body through the streets of Gaza AND watched women and children cheer.
So on the most basic of levels, as far as Israel goes, "Mine Enemies Enemy is my Friend." They have to win, and to my mind Iran has to lose to the extent their people are freed from the Ayatollah's IF not, then one day, we will face the Islamists in a war in Europe.
The reasons to support Israel are the same reasons you'd support the creation and expansion of the USA or Australia at the indigenous people's expense: it's a better use of land for it to be turned into a rich country, instead of keeping it poor in the hands of the old inhabitants.
I just wish people would be more honest instead of pretending Israel hasn't been engaging in ethnic cleansing/replacement its whole existence though. Unlimited U.S. financial and diplomatic support has meant Israel continues policies it can't afford on its own, like the occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and their foolish aim to permanently occupy/disenfranchise Palestinians while demanding they peacefully submit and never resort to violence.
You are trying to place the Jews in a zero-sum game framework, but they don’t belong there. Jewish communities have always opposed violence. The zero-sum game mentality goes against all of Jewish history and heritage, which is why Israel has always taken enormous risks for peace and even agreed to accept a tiny portion of fertile land in the 1947 partition plan. However, the Palestinians, like the entire Muslim world, have a zero-sum game mentality, and peace with them is not possible.
This is another malicious lie -- the Jews, if such a collectivity exists as opposed to individuals -- have never opposed violence. They ran the Gulag network for the Soviet Communists and an absolutely majority of the NKVD generals were Jewish. You are deluded if you think they have ever opposed violence. They gleefully accepted 56% of the territory, despite having only 33% of the population (the vast majority of them recent arrivals) in 1947 and began a war against their Arab neighbours to cleanse even those territories.
If you regard communism, a movement that oppressed and murdered Jews, as something that represents the Jewish people, then you are a vicious antisemite, and I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. I don’t think the Communist Party ever received more than 2% of the vote among Jews in Israel.
You are just a smearer and slurrer. There is no such thing as anti-semitism. All groups can be criticised. Bolshevism was a Jewish movement that took over Russia. Granted, millions of Gentiles joined the party in 1917, changing the ethnic balance in the party, but the Jews were an absolute majority of NKVD generals and ran the Gulags - and Solzhenitsyn writes how favourably Jewish prisoners were treated in the Gulags. You appear to lack basic knowledge of the Soviet Union.
Jewish communities have "always opposed violence" because they never had a state and had to live by other people's rules. Even before the Israeli state was established the Jewish immigrants were engaging in violence against the British and Palestinians, and had their eyes set on incorporating Jordan and southern Lebanon into a Jewish state.
What you’re saying is the essence of antisemitism: the inability to understand that a certain community genuinely opposes violence and truly doesn’t see the world as a zero-sum game. Therefore, there’s a need to fabricate a false history for them, as if they are also engaged in oppression, exploitation, and conspiracies. This is what lies behind Nazism, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and so on.
Jews are indigenous to israel and have lived there continuously for thousands of years. Arabs are colonists from the Hejaz. Israel is history's most successful indigenous peoples rights movement. It's an extraordinary miracle complete with the revival of its indigenous language.
The fundamental difference is that the Jews want a state of their own, while the Palestinians have no interest in having their own state, and they have rejected every such offer. What concerns them is that the Jews should not have a state.
They'll be getting zero because they keep starting imperialist wars against a superior opponent, against whom they always lose, so now their only option to perpetuate jihad is via holding their own civilians as hostage and pressing the global leftoid international into getting Bibi to cuck oout on finishing the job.
An undivided, secular Palestine, staring from the post-WWI British Mandate, would have been possible if Arab Muslims had any desire to live as equals to their former subjugates. But Arabs are chauvinist, racist assholes incapable of post-conventional morality. Which would be perfectly manageable if they weren't also kept constantly invigorated about finishing the jihad on the Jews despite failing miserably in every attempt since '48.
For the Israelis to not wind up like the Lebanese and Egyptian Christians, they have to defeat the Palis so thoroughly that they lose any hope at victory. As well we should see the dismantlement of UNRWA and other such criminal front groups which continue to nurse this grievance to the point of genocide, or eventually another geberation will repeat this cycle.
The justifications (or less charitably, excuses) for the non-existence of a Palestinian state are irrelevant to my point. [I'm happy to go into the details of the two-state solution in another thread.]
The point is very simple. Two peoples have claim to the land. Israel exercises self-determination in a state and Palestinians don't have a state.
>I wouldn’t say I’m heavily invested in these issues though. Maybe you shouldn’t be either.
Great line. I strongly believe that you can only really reach the truth with a deeply dispassionate analysis of events. It's no coincidence that the most ardent supporters of Israel/Palestine/Russia/Whatever also tend to have the worst epistemology.
I beg to differ. The epistemology on here regarding the Russia/Ukraine war is very lightweight. This war is actually a consequence of George Kennan's 1940's AND long since recanted belief that the Soviet Union should be ringed by a wall of steel. The very fact that the 'buffer state' status of the Ukraine is seen only from the Baltic States viewpoint suggests no deep reading. For it isn't ONLY the Baltic States that see Ukraine as a buffer state. Failing to delve into history more than about 20 years is poor. Ukraine was the buffer territory between Russia and Europe for centuries. EVERY Western invasion of Russia failed because the long haul across the plains of Ukraine, the scorched earth, weakened Napoleon and Hitler and saved Russia or the USSR. Ukraine IN the EU AND NATO is NOT a buffer state for Russia. IT means potential European Invaders start some 1000km closer to Moscow.
The US/EU/NATO has lied none-stop to Russia since the re-unification of Germany. So much as I don't wish to live under Putin's rule, I"d prefer NOT to live under the Ukrainians. So far it is Ukraine's leaders who drag men out of clubs and bars to be forced to fight and die. Russia hasn't yet resorted to that. Which begs the question. Are the Russian people more able to defy their supposedly worse than Ukraine Govt? Also it is NOT Russia who is under Martial Law. thus allowing Zelensky to remain President despite his democratic mandate having expired. The West should accept that IF Ukraine is going to cease being the Buffer State that the US/Russia originally agreed upon AND agreed to protect as such, then better the Soviet Drawn borders are redrawn to end this war, for we are in a Post Soviet World.
Look to the Balkans for another example of redrawing Soviet Borders in a Post Soviet World. The US/NATO was prominent in that too.
One final note, UKraine has historic enemies on its other borders too. Poland for one believes fair chunks of Ukraine are rightfully theirs. History is worth reading to understand the present.
> This war is actually a consequence of George Kennan's 1940's AND long since recanted belief that the Soviet Union should be ringed by a wall of steel.
In retrospect the Reagan doctrine of wining the Cold War, rather than merely containing Communism, turned out to be the correct one.
> Also it is NOT Russia who is under Martial Law
Russia is also not actively being invaded.
The Kursk region might beg to differ.
However that is only a distraction. Ukraine in NATO is NOT a buffer state as the treaties intended when Russia/US became guarantors of its existence.
The Ukraine's borders are Soviet Drawn, you can argue all you like regarding their 'validity' but once the US/NATO redrew the Soviet Borders in the Balkans then there is NO basis for the West arguing Crimea shouldn't be Russian nor the Donbas be Russian as it would be redrawing borders.
Nor has the West/US any moral standing when they promote a coup and overthrown a legitimately elected (though corrupt) Russian leaning President.
Imagine the response in the US had Lavrov turned up at the Capitol rally and encouraged it? Victoria Nuland turned up in Maidan Square!
The war should be stopped now and the borders re-drawn, because IF that doesn't happen, Ukraine is going to cease to exist or NATO has to accept WW3 and put boots on the ground. Or more pertinent, put MORE boots on the ground other than 'advisors' or tech specialists trainers.
The really immoral behaviour of the West is demanding that Ukraine conscript 18-24 year olds in return for weapons. They will die, as young and even middle aged men are dying in the horrific war of attrition in the East.
The demographics for Ukraine's 18-24 year olds are bleak As are most demographics in the West too. This is the generation that will repopulate Ukraine, to squander it on the battlefield to satisfy the West and the Azov Nazi Nationalists is immoral and in my mind despicable.
The West's propaganda is now being exposed for what was. Wishful thinking. Stop the war, negotiate AND IF needs be, tell Ukraine it has to be a buffer state, no NATO membership. Perhaps IF Russia is generous they may allow them into the EU.
I can already imagine the indignation in the minds of many 'Why should Russia have any say!" - Well, ask yourself this. Would the US have let Mexico join the Warsaw Pact?
> Imagine the response in the US had Lavrov turned up at the Capitol rally and encouraged it?
I'd thank him for his support for helping to try to overturn a brazenly fraudulent election.
You might, others I doubt would. Given that the BLM could torch US Cities for a whole summer and be described as 'mostly peaceful' protesters.
( have you seen this? https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/)
Meanwhile what appears to a UK citizen as the US equivalent of the UK's Monster Raving Loony Party fancy dress day out in the Capitol treated as an insurrection is risible.
Putin is right in that the West is rotten, at least as far as our ruling elites are concerned, and is going to have a terrific shock when the reality of the new world order appears.
Sooner or later, we are going to have to face Islam in Europe, and ironically the countries best set up to deal with it are all former Warsaw Pact states. Western civilisation was once saved from Ottomans by Hungary, it may need more than Hungary to save Europe from Islam next time. We should have accepted Russia into the European fold where it had been when Napoleon invaded it. Sadly the US would not have that because it would have made Europe a power again and diminished US influence. Russia would I suspect have teamed up with Germany and more than challenged US influence in Europe. Though the Baltic states etc were equally against. They better hope the buffer states to their South East can hold back Islam or they may regret that decision.
Meanwhile, here in the UK I wait with interest to see what fails first. Our new Government, or our power Grid. Though if the latter fails, our new Government will go with it. Net Zero is more dangerous to the UK than Putin or Russia.
All that noise just to apologise for Putin choosing to invade a sovereign European country in an action that's led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of European people.
Yeah, no, rambling about George Kennan isn't going to cut it.
> The war should be stopped now and the borders re-drawn,
The boarders have already been redrawn, multiple times, each time Russia wasn't satisfied.
By whom, and when? The Soviets? Russia is currently redrawing the borders because Ukraine, NATO and the US failed to abide by EVERY treaty they have signed with Russia, including those regarding Ukraine.
Ukraine was supposed as I've said before, to be the buffer state NOT just for the Baltic States, BUT for Russia. The West with Azov support, broke the treaty, staged a coup, overthrew a validly elected President who was about to sign a deal with Russia NOT the EU, because Putin offered what the EU could not offer. Unlimited cheap gas.
No matter how much one dislikes Putin and Russia, they stuck with treaties that the US/EU/NATO abandoned repeatedly. Russia is doing what it repeatedly warned the US/NATO it would do IF the US/NATO continued to break treaties and bring NATO to Russia's borders.
Azov, US, NATO were warned AND didn't believe Russia Now the Azov and Ukraine are reaping what they & the US sowed. Not even all Ukrainians want this war. As proven by the press gangs dragging young Ukrainian men from nightclubs, bars and pressing them into service.
The Donbas seceded from the rogue state that the coup produced and was then attacked by Ukraine's Nationalist Army. It is all there in black and white. You may not like it, but the fact is Russia, as it has done before, stepped in to protect ethnic Russians caught on the wrong side of Soviet drawn borders. Ukraine and the West could have negotiated BUT they didn't. Now it is too late to stop Russia redrawing the borders by force as they see fit.
This is the last response I will make ,because ALL the evidence is there for you to look up. The West, US/NATO is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian, something even all Ukrainians aren't prepared to do, but Azov and Zelensky under Martial Law will try and force them OR NATO to fight. It will NOT end well if the west does not stop it, in fact it will end far worse than a negotiated peace. We should have accepted Russia's bid to join NATO when they asked OR we should have scrapped NATO when the Warsaw pact was disbanded.
> By whom, and when?
First taking the Crimea, then parts of the Donbas, now the current invasion.
The problem is that war can get interested in you whether or not you have time to do a "deeply dispassionate analysis of events".
This is basically yet another First World luxury--to have so much spare time that we *can* afford to involve ourselves emotionally in situations that have very little direct bearing on our own lives.
Does anyone suppose that a farm worker in Sinaloa cares about stuff like this, at all?
Muslims seem to worry when something wildly anti-Islamic in another country happens
The ardent supporters of Israel/Palestine etc. do tend to have bad epistemology.
However, the people who DON'T have any opinions on any political issue tend to know even LESS and have even WORSE opinions.
[See Jason Brennan "Against Democracy" Chapter 2 for details.]
To use Brennan's terminology, partisans for any conflict tend to be "hooligans" (who know some things but in a biased way) while most other people are "hobbits" (who don't know anything and don't care).
FWIW, I, too, share your belief that one must distance one's self when evaluating most situations that are not within the sphere of your close personal circle--in the latter case, shared emotional responses are almost always what binds friendship/kinship groups.
But even further WRT dispassionarte evaluation for topics like Israel/Palestine, Ukraine/Russia, is Emil's early statement, "I wouldn’t say I am particularly invested in this issue.". If, like me--and apparently Emil--yuou have little investment, why bother with an actual commitment? Is it a form of self-definition/public testimony declaring the kind of person you are? That you feel that you're "on the right side"?
And added to all this, you're also right about shaky epistemology--and I'll add here that I've found that those who accept thin proof regularly have lots more problems than simply getting issues like Israel/Palestine "right".
So really, in these situations, my honest question is "why?" Why choose? Why involve yourself any further than in simply gathering the basic facts far enough to see that nope, it bears little to no direct or rationally foreseeable effect on the lives or you or yours?
Basic ethics: after decades of immigration, Jews *did not displace a single Arab community through 1946* while local Arabs bought into European genocidal antisemitism and were guilty of atrocities and ethnic cleansing of several ancient Jewish communities. Arab invasions starting in 1947 produced a war in which many Arabs lost their homes. Jews won a second genocidal attempt against them within three years and now ethically hold the nation of israel.
Prove it.
Look up Hebron Massacres (1929, 1936) and Al husseini-- the father of Palestinianism (hint, he was a friend of hitler's)
I see. More Judaic talking points. Husseini having intimate connections with uncle Adolf. Fantastical and creative….and entirely improbable. Also, the “massacres” you referenced were tribal skirmishes and not the ethnic pogroms that Zionists like to conjure up, despite what Wikipedias’ hasbara editors tell you.
You're a Nazi crank shut up
Cope harder.
Jews displaced multiple Arab communities prior to 1946: Jews bought land and systematically evicted the fellaheen inhabitants.
Name one. The settlement pattern of Jews in the British Palestinian Colony was almost entirely waste lands -- heavily malarial areas. In fact, The Arab population of the area exploded due to Jewish immigrant impact on economic dynamism. Meanwhile Arabs routinely massacred and ethnically cleansed Jews.
Tel-el-Adas.
Mahloul.
Majdal.
There are many more.
I don’t really know what you mean when you say you aren’t ”invested”.
The Ukraine War is the most important geopolitical event in Europe for a generation. And you don’t actually live that far away from it, or from where it could spread to.
The difference between Israel and the Palestinians, and between the Ukrainians and the Russians, lies in the contrast between those who believe the world is not a zero-sum game, where coexistence is possible, and those who view it as a zero-sum struggle that can only be resolved through violence. The Palestinians refuse to coexist with a Jewish state, and the Russians refuse to coexist with a free Ukraine.
Tamritz, you are a motivated liar. The Palestinians accepted only 22% of their own territory in the form of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. Netanyahu has made clear that under no circumstances would he allow that. You are a malevolent character. Try Jeffrey Sachs, Aaron Maté, Max Blumenthal and many others for more intelligent Jewish takes on this.
The Palestinians have never agreed, and still do not agree, to live alongside a Jewish state. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go to a Palestinian internet forum and ask them if they agree to a solution of a Palestinian state alongside a Jewish state. 90% of the responses will be negative. A solution of compromise is completely contrary to the Muslim mentality.
Ukraine isn't "free", it is an American colony since 2014, Crimea and Donbass are Russian-majority areas and deserve freedom from the Kiev regime that they didn't vote for
So do the various ethnic areas of Russia also deserve freedom from the Russian regime?
Prove it.
https://x.com/bengoldsmith/status/1843901022369903028?s=46
The tribal flex is deeply engrained in you.
Where by "tribal flex" you mean any argument demolishing your extremely shallow worldview.
No. I mean “tribal flex” as in “A people that shall-dwell-alone-Zionism-over-the-goyim,” way.
Saying the thing that no-one is willing to say out loud: Islam is an extremely violent, incestuous, xenophobic, genocidal, and misogynistic ideology. No one will be safe until it is gone from the face of the earth. Leave aside the Jews. Muslims in Bangladesh and Pakistan are killing and raping Hindus in those countries as you sit there.
The Palestinians are the worst of the worst.
I’m American and support Russia in the Russo-Ukrainian War though have no animosity towards Ukrainians and support their independence if that is what they desire. Just not as American vassals or in NATO.
You have no animosity against Ukranians but support Russia in bombing and killing them, and support their independence but also support Russia’s attempt to remove it?
I support the destruction of NATO, The EU, and America First aka an end to empire and neocon imperialist wars. If that makes me ‘Putin’s puppet’ in the eyes of Ukrainiacs, so be it.
This is a retarded thing to support
Not that the EU isn't a worthless organization, but even all its worthlessness is still infinitely better to Putinist gangsterism, which from day one was based not merely on imperialist wars conducted in the most indiscriminate matter, but on literally murdering hundreds of civilians in fake terrorist attacks for which to blame on Muslims, only to surrender the entire federation to Shariah, so thoroughly that desecrating a Koran anywhere in Russia is now punishable by being rounded up and tortured by Muslim thugs. Not even the most cucked surrenderist in the EU can boast of such debasement.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/court-russias-chechnya-sentences-man-3-12-years-koran-burning-tass-2024-02-27/
When we inevitably have our war with these degenerate orcs, or worse yet, the ChiComs, I hope you're used as cannon fodder.
‘Putin bad man.’ Must nuke Moscow. American imperialism and wars good. Rainbow flags in every hamlet from Taipei to Timbuktu. You people are a broken record. Retards.
God, you're an idiot.
You are indeed an idiot and another douchebag autist armchair warrior. No more being civil with your kind out here.
Lol most of the Amerimutts who want to fight the "orcs" want it because Putin banned gay parades which is a huge atrocity in the eyes of the western sodomites
Most American ‘dissident rightists’ who support NATO and essentially adopt neocon talking points should go back to conservatism or whatever swamp they climbed out of. They want Americans to die for Israel or the Jewish oligarch run state in Ukraine. Retards like Eugene Nier who probably has never been close to a battlefield in his autistic little life. Fuck all these people. I feel like I need a shower after interacting with these pieces of garbage.
Pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist won't make it go away.
And the collapse of the *Pax Americana* will not be good for America.
Minding our own business, looking after our own legitimate interests, and protecting our own borders rather fan those of parasitic countries like Israel and Ukraine is always good along with avoiding unnecessary wars not in our interests.
The collapse of the Pax Americana will lead to a lot more wars, under much less favorable circumstances.
Rubbish little neocon-lite dude as the United States meddles and foments wars constantly the world over. Russia doesn’t have troops and bases in every continent. Guess who does?
Oh, it's still there, but much of what goes on has very little direct effect on you and yours, nor is it likely to in any rational scenario.
All that can be a distraction. How to advance one's own position in the near to mid-term is where best to spend one's time, in my opinion.
> Oh, it's still there,
For now but badly holding.
I meant "the world". It's still there.
And yep, I needed to make the antecedent clear.
Such backdrop your ilk. You’re the last people who ever actually fight and die in these manufactured conflicts too.
All of these armchair dissident rightists have no skin in the game and have never served a day in the military (99% of them) but oh how they want ‘the proles’ to go fight their wars for them.
As opposed to supporting a puppet ‘Ukrainian’ regime with a non-Ukrainian leader and a government imposed by a phony western intelligence funded ‘color revolution.’
Right, you have no animosity towards people but no real problem with their being killed and their cities being bombed by dictators.
I have as much of a problem with that as you do with the mass murder of Russian civilians in Donbas.
Whatever people were killed in Donbass died as a result of a conflict Putin started.
Wrong again. It was the result of a criminal regime placed in power by western intelligence snd funded in part by NGOs financed by George Soros.
You don’t give a shit about them and I don’t think Ukraine is worth one white American life let alone a possible European (or Gods forbid, nuclear) war over a border dispute.
Showing the weakness will not get you peace.
Ukraine will be better of with a neutral non-aligned government.
Ah neocons.
The path of maintaining good relations with all, protecting our actual interests and maybe our own borders for a change.
Seven months ago I wrote this explaining why I support Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan
https://ombreolivier.substack.com/publish/posts/detail/142505908?referrer=%2Fpublish%2Fposts
I'm in the 100% pro Israel camp. On Russia vs. Ukraine, I'm slightly in the pro Russia camp.
In the beginning, I was strongly favoring Russia but Putin turned out to be a monkee/retard and Ukrainians defended themselves well. In general, I want the strongest horse to win in order to avoid White people being thrown in a meatgrinder. But I understand that game theoretically, aggressor must be punished to reduce future conflicts. I have Russian, Ukrainian and a bit of Jewish ancestry
Forcing 20 year old White boys to go die for geopolitical reasons is never acceptable, that doesn't mean it would be good for Putin to take over Russia but Zelensky should be removed from power and executed.
> Forcing 20 year old White boys to go die for geopolitical reasons is never acceptable
Whatever you do, don't look up who White people came to dominate the world.
They are basically the same ethnic group from my perspective
you wrong
There's a difference (or should be) between long and short term perspectives on the basic conflict. In the long run, people may have contrary but supportable views.
In the short term, Israel is unambiguously committing a genocide and war crimes on a massive scale, in a completely one-sided conflict in which it mainly bombs kids, sodomizes prisoners, throws Palestinians off buildings, assassinates relief workers, intentionally creates famine conditions, and commits large-scale terrorism within the borders of other countries. Much of this is on camera for all the world to see.
Unless you understand that the US and Eurozone regularly employ propaganda techniques originally developed as weapons of war on a scale that would make the Soviet's blush, you will understand very little of world events.
The conflict has been astonishingly targeted, especially by the standards of urban warfare against guerrilla terrorists whose only plan of victory is maximizing the civilian casualties of their own side.
The only creation of famine has been by HAMAS, who control all aid distribution, and whose only priority is ensuring its own survival for the sake of continuing their commitment to the IRGC's global jihad. Who also use both child soldiers and extrajudicial execution regregularly, so we will have zero means of figuring out how many Palis died in this war, least of all how many were actually civilians, especially given the Palis long tradition of lying about casualty figures, even when they're not directly warring on Jews, such as when Arafat tried and failed to conquer Jordan in the early '70s.
Good lord, this has to be one of the most frail takes on the Zionist-Palestinian conflict I’ve come across in a while. And it’s coming from the least expected person! I’m honestly flabbergasted that so many are still embracing this self-inflicted ideological submission (“cucking”) to Zionist pay-masters. Truly, it’s a masterclass in cognitive dissonance.
If you expected EK to favor Palestinians (IQ 90) over Ashkenazi Jews (IQ 110), you have not read much of him yet. See his most popular post: crime rates of Palestinian refugees in Denmark! Spoiler: Very high. https://www.emilkirkegaard.com/p/palestinians-in-your-country-what
"Any group whose IQ is below mine are barbarians whose presence is incompatible with civilization, any group whose IQ is above mine are evil conspirators planning to exile us from civilization."
It’s a lot like the white woke mantra that any group that does better than whites (Jews Asians etc) is because of culture and any group that does worse (blacks natives etc) is because of oppression and discrimination.
You missed the subtle point in my comment. Notice how once one abstracts away from the specific groups in question, the first attitude justifies the second.
Emil has always been spineless when it comes to the Jewish question
Where do I start? Israel is less evil? This man claims to be a researcher into IQ and then produces this low-IQ statement. To arrive in a part of the world you have no claim to with the aim of pushing all of the inhabitants out; to embroil all surrounding countries in constant wars; to surround UN refugee camps in Lebanon and send in local militia to massacre refugees; to wage the war of Cast Lead against Gaza including shooting in the ankles peaceful protestors - most of whom now permanently disabled; to have killed around 150,000 Palestinians between 2008 and 2023, before the current conflict; and then to wage the current war, mainly on women and children, including bombing hospitals, churches and schools--and then to say these people aren't evil? This is flabbergasting. I think you need to consider your qualifications for writing on IQ if you're struggling yourself, mate!
Arabs started it < 1946 with their genocidal antisemitism. They had many opportunities to make peace. Jews never displaced any Arab communities before 1947 but Arabs wanted the Jews dead anyway.
That is simply untrue. I suspect you know it to be untrue. Bengurion wrote in his letters of his plans to create an ethnically cleansed Nazareth, and Jabotinsky, the main Zionist ideologue and precursor of Likud, wrote of "transfer", not "ethnic cleansing", but "transfer" of the entire Palestinian nation out of Palestine. In fact the war began in November 1947 - you are wrong - and you are lying when you say the war began in 1946 - read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine on this. No condemnation is too harsh for people like you who inhabit social media and make explicit pro-genocidal propaganda. I do support sharing the land, as people born there have nowhere to go, but that requires negotiations reaching a MUTUALLY SATISFACTORY agreement, and not just violent repression of the Palestinians. As 50% of the population is Arab now, I recommend 50% of the land going to the Palestinians (despite the fact that 100% of it was their land to begin with).
The Palestinians need to accept that they lost and figure it out from there. Continuing to fight and particularly to fight by deliberately targeting soft civilian targets while ignoring the military and government is not a strategy that can ever succeed at anything except convince Israel to actually "kill them all and let god sort them out"
In my opinion Israel has been excessively tolerant and careful in its responses and that is probably a mistake because it convinces Palestinians that Israel is weak. Realistically Israel could kill everyone in Gaza in a week or less and there is nothing that the Gazans can do to stop that and nothing that their allies or putative allies can do either. That's a sign that you have lost and need to sue for terms not continue fighting.
No, they don't have to accept that they lost, as if they should just commit suicide to satisfy you. It is all their territory, including Tel Aviv, but they have stated they will share and divide the territory, but Israel has said they will get nothing at all.
Ben Gurion vetoed the order to evacuate Nazareth.
You maintained the famous Irish antisemitism.
150K Palestinians between 2008 and 2023? This is blatant fake news. You are just posting massively inflated fake death tolls.
Agreed!
Such a moronic statement by a so-called rational empiricist.
I'm for Russia because Azov supported Nazis, Ukraine is a proxy for NATO who have lied since day 1 to Russia Russia is a slightly less corrupt an Oligarchy than Ukraine. The US uses/used NATO to further its global hegemonic ambitions which include the destruction of Russia as a potential rival superpower. Putin may not be nice, but he was honest, he has warned the US/NATO repeatedly that war was the ultimate outcome IF NATO kept expanding to their borders. The Irony is your 'buffer' state argument re the Baltic States IS the very argument Russia uses for the war. Ukraine is NO buffer IF it becomes a NATO member as far as Russia is concerned.
Ukraine's leaders aren't nice either AND they were killing ethnic Russians in the Donbas for a start following the US supported Coup of 2014.
So it may be IF you know more of the real-politik an opinion may change?
As for Israel, I watched the pogrom of Oct 7, and remember that in the UK it wasn't the Israeli's who bombed young girls in Manchester Arena, or the Underground/London.
Israel is fighting an enemy of Western Civilisation, an enemy who, IF they ever gain Nuclear Weapons, are quite likely to use them because as the Crusaders used to say (though of a Christian God, NOT theirs) 'Deus Vult' - So my support of Israel is because better they fight and win than my children lose or die.
Our leaders in the West are morons. There is NO such thing as Islamaphobia, because a phobia is irrational. Fear of Islam is NOT irrational. What is it with them and young girls? Did you see and hear what they did to them on Oct 7th. I saw a video of them (their own video!) parading a young girl's defiled body through the streets of Gaza AND watched women and children cheer.
So on the most basic of levels, as far as Israel goes, "Mine Enemies Enemy is my Friend." They have to win, and to my mind Iran has to lose to the extent their people are freed from the Ayatollah's IF not, then one day, we will face the Islamists in a war in Europe.
The reasons to support Israel are the same reasons you'd support the creation and expansion of the USA or Australia at the indigenous people's expense: it's a better use of land for it to be turned into a rich country, instead of keeping it poor in the hands of the old inhabitants.
I just wish people would be more honest instead of pretending Israel hasn't been engaging in ethnic cleansing/replacement its whole existence though. Unlimited U.S. financial and diplomatic support has meant Israel continues policies it can't afford on its own, like the occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and their foolish aim to permanently occupy/disenfranchise Palestinians while demanding they peacefully submit and never resort to violence.
You are trying to place the Jews in a zero-sum game framework, but they don’t belong there. Jewish communities have always opposed violence. The zero-sum game mentality goes against all of Jewish history and heritage, which is why Israel has always taken enormous risks for peace and even agreed to accept a tiny portion of fertile land in the 1947 partition plan. However, the Palestinians, like the entire Muslim world, have a zero-sum game mentality, and peace with them is not possible.
This is another malicious lie -- the Jews, if such a collectivity exists as opposed to individuals -- have never opposed violence. They ran the Gulag network for the Soviet Communists and an absolutely majority of the NKVD generals were Jewish. You are deluded if you think they have ever opposed violence. They gleefully accepted 56% of the territory, despite having only 33% of the population (the vast majority of them recent arrivals) in 1947 and began a war against their Arab neighbours to cleanse even those territories.
If you regard communism, a movement that oppressed and murdered Jews, as something that represents the Jewish people, then you are a vicious antisemite, and I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. I don’t think the Communist Party ever received more than 2% of the vote among Jews in Israel.
You are just a smearer and slurrer. There is no such thing as anti-semitism. All groups can be criticised. Bolshevism was a Jewish movement that took over Russia. Granted, millions of Gentiles joined the party in 1917, changing the ethnic balance in the party, but the Jews were an absolute majority of NKVD generals and ran the Gulags - and Solzhenitsyn writes how favourably Jewish prisoners were treated in the Gulags. You appear to lack basic knowledge of the Soviet Union.
Jewish communities have "always opposed violence" because they never had a state and had to live by other people's rules. Even before the Israeli state was established the Jewish immigrants were engaging in violence against the British and Palestinians, and had their eyes set on incorporating Jordan and southern Lebanon into a Jewish state.
What you’re saying is the essence of antisemitism: the inability to understand that a certain community genuinely opposes violence and truly doesn’t see the world as a zero-sum game. Therefore, there’s a need to fabricate a false history for them, as if they are also engaged in oppression, exploitation, and conspiracies. This is what lies behind Nazism, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and so on.
Jews are indigenous to israel and have lived there continuously for thousands of years. Arabs are colonists from the Hejaz. Israel is history's most successful indigenous peoples rights movement. It's an extraordinary miracle complete with the revival of its indigenous language.
About Israel-Palestine:
"Self-determination: It's a draw"
Is it? You say both of them have claim to the land. Fine. But the fundamental difference is that Israel has a state while Palestinians don't.
So how is it a draw?
The fundamental difference is that the Jews want a state of their own, while the Palestinians have no interest in having their own state, and they have rejected every such offer. What concerns them is that the Jews should not have a state.
This is a lie. The Palestinians have, unjustly, accepted 22% of the land instead of 100% - and the Israelis have told them they will be getting 0%.
Can you find even one example of a discussion among Palestinians online where they agree to live alongside a Jewish state?
They'll be getting zero because they keep starting imperialist wars against a superior opponent, against whom they always lose, so now their only option to perpetuate jihad is via holding their own civilians as hostage and pressing the global leftoid international into getting Bibi to cuck oout on finishing the job.
An undivided, secular Palestine, staring from the post-WWI British Mandate, would have been possible if Arab Muslims had any desire to live as equals to their former subjugates. But Arabs are chauvinist, racist assholes incapable of post-conventional morality. Which would be perfectly manageable if they weren't also kept constantly invigorated about finishing the jihad on the Jews despite failing miserably in every attempt since '48.
For the Israelis to not wind up like the Lebanese and Egyptian Christians, they have to defeat the Palis so thoroughly that they lose any hope at victory. As well we should see the dismantlement of UNRWA and other such criminal front groups which continue to nurse this grievance to the point of genocide, or eventually another geberation will repeat this cycle.
The justifications (or less charitably, excuses) for the non-existence of a Palestinian state are irrelevant to my point. [I'm happy to go into the details of the two-state solution in another thread.]
The point is very simple. Two peoples have claim to the land. Israel exercises self-determination in a state and Palestinians don't have a state.
So how is self-determination issue a "draw"?
"Palestinians" do in fact have a state. It's called Jordan.
Nuke em' both, settle the levant with Danes.
The world wins.
No, not even accepting all the implicit premises, save one, because Jews have and undoubtedly will continue to contribute far more than Danes 😂