If men can have babies, need tampons, of course they can have vaginal discharge, duh. /sarcasm
But yes, in some Haitian poverty clinic, maybe they are not concerned that trans women are real women and similar nonsense
BTW: how do you relate PC to DISHONESTY, like "trans women are real women and similar nonsense", and "it is not permissible to tell that robbers are mostly black" etc.
It is clearly dishonest, and/or false knowledge and belief
The gap between self reports, parental reports and interviewer reports existing for blacks but not for other races is itself the best sign of black dishonesty.
No, not at all. Interviewing someone to find out if they lie might only catch the people who aren't smart enough to keep their story believable or consistent. No background checks or other things makes the study pointless.
Ah, don't be so sure. Most scales of the Dark Triad, like the Dirty Dozen, are self report, and they work reasonably well. Look, I even duckduckgoed it for you, and "duckduckgoed" isn't even a word!
Regarding the dark triad self reporting, those that have these traits could just be more open to stating they have them, whereas with the above study the less intelligent people may have been more likely to get caught when telling a lie.
In fairness, China didn't stop being full commie until ~1990, whereas nearly all those countries were safe and capitalist decades before that. They had a head start.
Also, those countries are mostly smaller and can specialize in very high value industries (many of them middle men for Chinese manufacturing) which a real country with lots of people can't specialize that much.
I do think those countries are better than China, but comments like this feel very context free.
We don't know where China will be in another couple of decades relative to these countries. In fact one has already been swallowed up by China. Being a tiny nation that can specialize in banking and trade is great until your tiny size means you just get swamped by the bigger power.
One wonders the following: given that vanishingly few females are geniuses (or morons), that they overwhelmingly fall in the middle of the Bell Curve, and that sex-selection of children in China is both rampant and solely oriented to males (with the current result of 40 million males of marriageable age who will never find a wife), what is the impact on the reported national IQ of China by removing so many mid-level IQs, and can it be otherwise than biasing that IQ above what it would be in the absence of sex-selection at conception and birth?
IQ isn't even IQ. Asians do comparatively well on Visio-Spatial, whereas other groups like Jews do better on verbal. Which is more important for building a good society? Steve Hsu goes on about Shape Rotators vs Wordcels, but it seems to me that Shape Rotators tend to end up working for wordcels who tell them what to work on and build the kind of societies people want to park their capital in. A shape rotator without direction is just a doing useless nerd shit in his basement. And if he does make money his wife spends it all on designer handbags made by French wordcels at a 100,000% markup.
Maybe the shape rotators will sink our aircraft carriers with superior missiles and this will change. Don't know. The last East Asian power to try that is our property now and knew it was going to lose the war before it even tried.
There is a fun little movie in Japan called The Great War of Archimedes where this shape rotator tries to prove that building the Yamamoto battleship is fucking retarded and in the end Jap admiral wordcels get what they want anyway. It was also funny when if they had won twenty Midways my grandpas subs would have sunk all their oil transports and the Kido Butai would have been stuck in port anyway. The fuckers were putting unrefined oil in their engines, they would have engines would have been destroyed even if they won their battles.
Wordcels in the west have gotten really retarded, and maybe they are so retarded the shape rotators will win, but it's not clear to me that will create the world I want to live in. And I say this as someone very sympathetic to shape rotators who used to have some hope East Asia would represent a genuine counterweight that would keep us honest.
Jews being better only in verbal is whitey cope, how else do you explain the fact that Jews are way overrepresented amongst STEM geniuses (see the "martians", physics, chem, bio nobel prize winners etc.), just like they are in the "verbal" professions?
Whenever I see that chart of the wallet experiment, I have to point out that the authors of that study deliberately left out Japan, South Korea, and Singapore. And I simply don't believe that data on South Africa and UAE. I've visited the UAE. There's very little crime. I can save a seat at a coffee shop using my phone. I can do that also in Singapore.
And if you've been keeping up with the news on South Africa lately, you'll know that it's a failed state just like most other African country. Getting a lost wallet back is the least of your concerns if you're there. Not getting robbed and kidnapped is top priority. But somehow South Africa is more honest than China?
The study claiming that honesty can be accurately measured by interviewers asking questions is pointless, it probably just found the lower IQ people were lying due to them not being able to keep their story straight due to less cognitive abilities. As for the parental reporting, this also would have to do with how well the parents perceive their children which again is skewed based on other factors. The bogus pipeline fake lie detector approach would most likely be more accurate, they used that to determine in a study on reported versus actual sex partner counts between men and women. The wallet study was far better, but its also noteworthy that the poorer countries had the higher lying rates, why wouldn't they control for SES in these regions and then measure it? And how do we know they didnt just go to poor regions in the non white countries and richer ones in the white ones? And why not measure the other well off East Asian countries instead of just China? They conveniently measure like 20 European countries but only one higher SES East Asian one. I wouldn't be surprised if they just left them out.
Cohn et al. (2019) is not a very good paper and has quite a lot of flaws, I wouldn't recommend citing it. I don't doubt the overall findings about race differences in honesty, but using poorly done research is suboptimal. Cui et al. (2019), for example, found that after correcting for experiment control variables, the differences that were reported between the countries countries vanished. Yang et al. (2023) did a replication attempt of attempt of the original study in China and found much higher levels of civic honesty using wallet recovery rate, whereas email response rates was similar to the original study (and indeed, it was the method used in the original study), which suggests that using email response rates is an imperfect method.
Specifically politically correct lies (or honest false belief) that led to Richard Lynn not getting a Nobel prize, but reaping badmouthing and persecution. Similarly, @EmilKirkegaard, who does not get the dozens of prestigious job offers he deserves.
Effect sizes of taboo race differences are so staggering that a Latina friend of mine, visiting the USA, noticed after 15 minutes of observation, that Blacks are the people who jaywalk against pedestrian traffic lights.
Pedestrian Traffic Fatalities Skyrocketed During the Ferguson and Floyd Effects
So have homicide rates, I can find evidence that fatalities increased by 10 000 per year, in the US, due to these effects. @EmilKierkegaard, want a topic for a paper? here
Okay, in conclusion, here’s my offer. I’m so sick of unneeded increments of my fellow American citizens dying suddenly by murder and car crash that I don’t need credit for noticing the dual Floyd Effect first. Anybody who wants to publicize this huge problem that depolicing leads to both more murders and more road wrecks should do so, and feel no obligation whatsoever to mention by contribution to science.
================
The resulting equity quotas, CRT, BLM, destruction meritocracy in school systems, policies in general, the demise of Zimbabwe, South Africa, Detroit, Malmö are terrible disasters.
It seems, the higher the individual or sub-group IQ, the higher the leftist political correctness. If these people honestly believe what they say and do, at some point they were dishonest enough to succumb to the brainwashing.
Gifted IQ people, like Mensa members, graduate students in top Universities in law etc., CEO's like Bezos and Bill Gates seem especially brainwashed by scientifically clearly false egalitarianism. Especially they are IMMUNE to HONEST, enlightening info like Bell Curve, IQ and wealth of Nations.
Redneck MAGA people from flyover country with slightly below average IQ are much more down to earth and in touch with reality. They don't believe in insanities like "defunding police".
Advanced dishonesty like manipulating elections, or Covid research, n legal or blatantly illegal ways, also are connected to dishonesty, or brainwashed false beliefs.
I believe there is research that Leftists are less honest than the right.
Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing [O’Sullivan] [Robert Conquest]
Left-wingers, utterly intolerant, will not hire a non-Leftist. Leftists will harass and oust1 non-leftists at every opportunity. They even get rid of CEO’s2. Naïve right wingers hire neutrally: the Right is perfectly willing to admit openly left-wing employees, in the interest of fairness.
Instruction manuals for Chinese products are, sometimes, hilarious and unintelligible. Can't they afford paying 2 hours of a high school English teacher, to proof read?
A personal anecdote, a top international hotel at Hong Kong airport(!) was selling "Google" for a few dozen USD or so. Other items were swimming caps and sunscreen. At a huge blackboard next to the excellent swimming pool!
Mixing up Google and goggles, among excellent English speakers, and dozens of native English speaking guests, how does this happen?
This is not obviously related to dishonesty, but maybe it is!? Falsely pretending to be a good English speaker? Cutting corners in salary pay? Lacking self-doubt, thus not getting a proof reader? Fear (?) of others to point out the obvious mistakes? Lack of conscientiousness?
Interesting, but I don't think the most important relationship is between honesty and intelligence. You mention briefly that China (despite having a high average IQ) is actually one of the most dishonest countries. This data point should have concerned you more than it seems to. Ed Realist has talked a lot about Asian Americans being more likely to cheat on exams, and how that's changed school cultures. I don't have hard data on any of this obviously, but chocking up China's low overall honesty score to communism is potentially burying something really interesting.
I thought this was the most interesting paragraph in this post:
"Here we used Bayesian model averaging (BMA) because our number of predictors was small for the number of countries (n = 35). The most important predictor was individualism (beta = 0.64), which is basically what sets apart northern Europeans from the rest of the world (WEIRDest people in the world stuff, but see also Kevin MacDonald's work). There was also a plausible role for national intelligence (beta 0.25) and masculinity (beta -0.35, think Russian-style macho behavior). It should be noted that with this small sample size, these conclusions are not very firm."
I think you basically got it right here: what matters isn't intelligence *per se*, but WEIRD culture. Intelligence is necessary, but not sufficient to absorb WEIRD social norms.
Anecdotally, I have observed that unintelligent teenagers lie a lot. One claimed to be a famous pop singer, another had allegedly hacked the Pentagon. Among relatives and classmates, the brighter ones also tended to be more honest.
Criminals seem to be a breed apart. When watching Live PD (a police show) it struck me how they almost never told the truth.
The statement on AI surfacing large amounts of dishonest studies will, when looked at from the theme of the new and fast-accelerating democratization of information, result in massive and global discontent by the global populations, and subsequent reactions against the elites.
Regarding the wallet study, I and others have noted previously that this study omitted Japan or other E Asian nations (except for China). Based on personal experience (I have had my wallet returned to me when I left it behind once) and numerous conversations with other residents and visitors to Japan I would expect that Japan would be at the top of the honesty scale. I suspect S Korea would be almost as good but am not so sure as might Singapore
I am reminded of this funny travelogue (https://web.archive.org/web/20180201115755/http://squid314.livejournal.com/297579.html) especially the part about the nurse and also "the man who came in complaining of vaginal discharge."
This looks trans-phobic /sarcasm
If men can have babies, need tampons, of course they can have vaginal discharge, duh. /sarcasm
But yes, in some Haitian poverty clinic, maybe they are not concerned that trans women are real women and similar nonsense
BTW: how do you relate PC to DISHONESTY, like "trans women are real women and similar nonsense", and "it is not permissible to tell that robbers are mostly black" etc.
It is clearly dishonest, and/or false knowledge and belief
The gap between self reports, parental reports and interviewer reports existing for blacks but not for other races is itself the best sign of black dishonesty.
No, not at all. Interviewing someone to find out if they lie might only catch the people who aren't smart enough to keep their story believable or consistent. No background checks or other things makes the study pointless.
Ah, don't be so sure. Most scales of the Dark Triad, like the Dirty Dozen, are self report, and they work reasonably well. Look, I even duckduckgoed it for you, and "duckduckgoed" isn't even a word!
https://www.idrlabs.com/dirty-dozen/test.php
Regarding the dark triad self reporting, those that have these traits could just be more open to stating they have them, whereas with the above study the less intelligent people may have been more likely to get caught when telling a lie.
I always point out China when talking about how IQ isn't the be-all and end-all of making a great society.
Bing chilling!
China is by far the least succesful of the Chinese countries (China, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong)
In fairness, China didn't stop being full commie until ~1990, whereas nearly all those countries were safe and capitalist decades before that. They had a head start.
Also, those countries are mostly smaller and can specialize in very high value industries (many of them middle men for Chinese manufacturing) which a real country with lots of people can't specialize that much.
I do think those countries are better than China, but comments like this feel very context free.
We don't know where China will be in another couple of decades relative to these countries. In fact one has already been swallowed up by China. Being a tiny nation that can specialize in banking and trade is great until your tiny size means you just get swamped by the bigger power.
One wonders the following: given that vanishingly few females are geniuses (or morons), that they overwhelmingly fall in the middle of the Bell Curve, and that sex-selection of children in China is both rampant and solely oriented to males (with the current result of 40 million males of marriageable age who will never find a wife), what is the impact on the reported national IQ of China by removing so many mid-level IQs, and can it be otherwise than biasing that IQ above what it would be in the absence of sex-selection at conception and birth?
IQ isn't even IQ. Asians do comparatively well on Visio-Spatial, whereas other groups like Jews do better on verbal. Which is more important for building a good society? Steve Hsu goes on about Shape Rotators vs Wordcels, but it seems to me that Shape Rotators tend to end up working for wordcels who tell them what to work on and build the kind of societies people want to park their capital in. A shape rotator without direction is just a doing useless nerd shit in his basement. And if he does make money his wife spends it all on designer handbags made by French wordcels at a 100,000% markup.
Maybe the shape rotators will sink our aircraft carriers with superior missiles and this will change. Don't know. The last East Asian power to try that is our property now and knew it was going to lose the war before it even tried.
There is a fun little movie in Japan called The Great War of Archimedes where this shape rotator tries to prove that building the Yamamoto battleship is fucking retarded and in the end Jap admiral wordcels get what they want anyway. It was also funny when if they had won twenty Midways my grandpas subs would have sunk all their oil transports and the Kido Butai would have been stuck in port anyway. The fuckers were putting unrefined oil in their engines, they would have engines would have been destroyed even if they won their battles.
Wordcels in the west have gotten really retarded, and maybe they are so retarded the shape rotators will win, but it's not clear to me that will create the world I want to live in. And I say this as someone very sympathetic to shape rotators who used to have some hope East Asia would represent a genuine counterweight that would keep us honest.
Jews being better only in verbal is whitey cope, how else do you explain the fact that Jews are way overrepresented amongst STEM geniuses (see the "martians", physics, chem, bio nobel prize winners etc.), just like they are in the "verbal" professions?
Science gets advanced by technical prowess not social prowess obviously.
Whenever I see that chart of the wallet experiment, I have to point out that the authors of that study deliberately left out Japan, South Korea, and Singapore. And I simply don't believe that data on South Africa and UAE. I've visited the UAE. There's very little crime. I can save a seat at a coffee shop using my phone. I can do that also in Singapore.
And if you've been keeping up with the news on South Africa lately, you'll know that it's a failed state just like most other African country. Getting a lost wallet back is the least of your concerns if you're there. Not getting robbed and kidnapped is top priority. But somehow South Africa is more honest than China?
People with low-IQ are also the least equipped to get away with lying.
The study claiming that honesty can be accurately measured by interviewers asking questions is pointless, it probably just found the lower IQ people were lying due to them not being able to keep their story straight due to less cognitive abilities. As for the parental reporting, this also would have to do with how well the parents perceive their children which again is skewed based on other factors. The bogus pipeline fake lie detector approach would most likely be more accurate, they used that to determine in a study on reported versus actual sex partner counts between men and women. The wallet study was far better, but its also noteworthy that the poorer countries had the higher lying rates, why wouldn't they control for SES in these regions and then measure it? And how do we know they didnt just go to poor regions in the non white countries and richer ones in the white ones? And why not measure the other well off East Asian countries instead of just China? They conveniently measure like 20 European countries but only one higher SES East Asian one. I wouldn't be surprised if they just left them out.
Cohn et al. (2019) is not a very good paper and has quite a lot of flaws, I wouldn't recommend citing it. I don't doubt the overall findings about race differences in honesty, but using poorly done research is suboptimal. Cui et al. (2019), for example, found that after correcting for experiment control variables, the differences that were reported between the countries countries vanished. Yang et al. (2023) did a replication attempt of attempt of the original study in China and found much higher levels of civic honesty using wallet recovery rate, whereas email response rates was similar to the original study (and indeed, it was the method used in the original study), which suggests that using email response rates is an imperfect method.
https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/yg36r/
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2213824120
It is also good to find many methods to find honesty, as objectively as possible. That would further strengthen the results.
I remember there are Leftist claims that Blacks use the same amount of illicit drugs as whites but get arrested and convicted more often.
They, dishonestly, hide studies that tested the honesty of self reports.
Ask about drug use
then do blood and hair tests about drug use
that research showed a much higher rate of lying in Blacks, against the objective blood tests. Maybe there are enough Chinese in that research?
I have a long term deep interest in issues of honesty, lies, deception, self deception, as evidenced by my name and domain names https://4honesty.com/ and 4HONESTY.com and https://sincerity.net/
Specifically politically correct lies (or honest false belief) that led to Richard Lynn not getting a Nobel prize, but reaping badmouthing and persecution. Similarly, @EmilKirkegaard, who does not get the dozens of prestigious job offers he deserves.
Effect sizes of taboo race differences are so staggering that a Latina friend of mine, visiting the USA, noticed after 15 minutes of observation, that Blacks are the people who jaywalk against pedestrian traffic lights.
=============
https://vdare.com/posts/pedestrian-traffic-fatalities-skyrocketed-during-the-ferguson-and-floyd-effects
Pedestrian Traffic Fatalities Skyrocketed During the Ferguson and Floyd Effects
So have homicide rates, I can find evidence that fatalities increased by 10 000 per year, in the US, due to these effects. @EmilKierkegaard, want a topic for a paper? here
https://vdare.com/articles/sailer-at-the-castle-did-black-lives-matter-get-all-those-black-lives-murdered-yes-i-have-the-charts-to-prove-it
Okay, in conclusion, here’s my offer. I’m so sick of unneeded increments of my fellow American citizens dying suddenly by murder and car crash that I don’t need credit for noticing the dual Floyd Effect first. Anybody who wants to publicize this huge problem that depolicing leads to both more murders and more road wrecks should do so, and feel no obligation whatsoever to mention by contribution to science.
================
The resulting equity quotas, CRT, BLM, destruction meritocracy in school systems, policies in general, the demise of Zimbabwe, South Africa, Detroit, Malmö are terrible disasters.
It seems, the higher the individual or sub-group IQ, the higher the leftist political correctness. If these people honestly believe what they say and do, at some point they were dishonest enough to succumb to the brainwashing.
Gifted IQ people, like Mensa members, graduate students in top Universities in law etc., CEO's like Bezos and Bill Gates seem especially brainwashed by scientifically clearly false egalitarianism. Especially they are IMMUNE to HONEST, enlightening info like Bell Curve, IQ and wealth of Nations.
Redneck MAGA people from flyover country with slightly below average IQ are much more down to earth and in touch with reality. They don't believe in insanities like "defunding police".
Advanced dishonesty like manipulating elections, or Covid research, n legal or blatantly illegal ways, also are connected to dishonesty, or brainwashed false beliefs.
I believe there is research that Leftists are less honest than the right.
https://sincerity.net/left-wing-wins-osullivan/
Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing [O’Sullivan] [Robert Conquest]
Left-wingers, utterly intolerant, will not hire a non-Leftist. Leftists will harass and oust1 non-leftists at every opportunity. They even get rid of CEO’s2. Naïve right wingers hire neutrally: the Right is perfectly willing to admit openly left-wing employees, in the interest of fairness.
What about CHINGLISH? https://ltl-school.com/chinglish/
Instruction manuals for Chinese products are, sometimes, hilarious and unintelligible. Can't they afford paying 2 hours of a high school English teacher, to proof read?
A personal anecdote, a top international hotel at Hong Kong airport(!) was selling "Google" for a few dozen USD or so. Other items were swimming caps and sunscreen. At a huge blackboard next to the excellent swimming pool!
Mixing up Google and goggles, among excellent English speakers, and dozens of native English speaking guests, how does this happen?
This is not obviously related to dishonesty, but maybe it is!? Falsely pretending to be a good English speaker? Cutting corners in salary pay? Lacking self-doubt, thus not getting a proof reader? Fear (?) of others to point out the obvious mistakes? Lack of conscientiousness?
Statistics is math without forgery.
Interesting, but I don't think the most important relationship is between honesty and intelligence. You mention briefly that China (despite having a high average IQ) is actually one of the most dishonest countries. This data point should have concerned you more than it seems to. Ed Realist has talked a lot about Asian Americans being more likely to cheat on exams, and how that's changed school cultures. I don't have hard data on any of this obviously, but chocking up China's low overall honesty score to communism is potentially burying something really interesting.
I thought this was the most interesting paragraph in this post:
"Here we used Bayesian model averaging (BMA) because our number of predictors was small for the number of countries (n = 35). The most important predictor was individualism (beta = 0.64), which is basically what sets apart northern Europeans from the rest of the world (WEIRDest people in the world stuff, but see also Kevin MacDonald's work). There was also a plausible role for national intelligence (beta 0.25) and masculinity (beta -0.35, think Russian-style macho behavior). It should be noted that with this small sample size, these conclusions are not very firm."
I think you basically got it right here: what matters isn't intelligence *per se*, but WEIRD culture. Intelligence is necessary, but not sufficient to absorb WEIRD social norms.
Anecdotally, I have observed that unintelligent teenagers lie a lot. One claimed to be a famous pop singer, another had allegedly hacked the Pentagon. Among relatives and classmates, the brighter ones also tended to be more honest.
Criminals seem to be a breed apart. When watching Live PD (a police show) it struck me how they almost never told the truth.
The statement on AI surfacing large amounts of dishonest studies will, when looked at from the theme of the new and fast-accelerating democratization of information, result in massive and global discontent by the global populations, and subsequent reactions against the elites.
Regarding the wallet study, I and others have noted previously that this study omitted Japan or other E Asian nations (except for China). Based on personal experience (I have had my wallet returned to me when I left it behind once) and numerous conversations with other residents and visitors to Japan I would expect that Japan would be at the top of the honesty scale. I suspect S Korea would be almost as good but am not so sure as might Singapore
I wonder what the correlation between honesty and psychopathy is.
Researchers find a lack of HEXACO Honesty-Humility lies at the core of the Dark Triad of Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and Psychopathy: https://www.academia.edu/download/42867342/Unpacking_evil_Claiming_the_core_of_the_20160220-24808-11rst17.pdf
So, r ~ -1.